Lee Hart - Road to the Horse Wildcard Challenge/American Cowboy/World Champion Bronc Rider/Family Man/Calgary Stampede/Top Notch Horse Trainer/True Cowboy/Ranch Hand

 Lee Hart

Wed, Aug 09, 2023 10:43AM • 1:09:20

SPEAKERS

Brandy Von Holten, Lee Hart

 Brandy Von Holten 

welcome back to Big Boss mare with Brandy Von Holten. Today I have a very special guest with me. His name is Lee Hart. Okay, so Lee Hart has known me since. I don't know Lee was it around probably around 2012 2013 Somewhere around there. I know it was before Von Holten ranch started. So do you remember the first time you met me? It was actually at a play. It was a it's a place called R-B. And I always thought everybody was saying, Our  Barbie. So I was like we're going to our Barbie. But it turns out it is our the letter and then a bar. And then B. Okay, so it's R-B. They are in Topeka, Kansas. And there was a horse competition there that I had fell into. It was a UHCCA and exe a event. Okay, so, Lee, do you? You don't remember that?

 

Lee Hart 

Actually I do because I reached out to you and said, hey, I can help you.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Yes. Which I needed some help. Okay, so Lee Hart is the first person I ever took a horse lesson with. But Lee Hart Isn't this amazing cowboy. I cannot wait to share this person with you. But the whole world's about to know who Lee Hart is. So a lot of my horse listeners already know who Lee Hart is that the rest of the world is about to find out because he just got invited to the road to the horse wildcard challenge. So I'll explain that in just a little bit for the people that are tuning in and don't know what the heck that is because it's a big deal in the horse world. Okay, so Lee, let's have people get to know you. So what year were you born in? 1970 to 1972. Okay. And then where were you born?

 

Lee Hart 

I was born in Texas. All right. So

 

Brandy Von Holten 

like South South Texas, or in the South Plains, South Plains, because I'm from Texas also. Okay. Um, I was born in around Beaumont, Texas, and my parents. Were around DeKalb, Texas, before we came to Arkansas, but everybody always thinks I'm just from Arkansas. And now, everybody around here. Since we own a century farm, they think that this is my family, which is weird, because my it's my husband's last name. And I was like, we were not brother and sister. Oh, God. I'll have people that will be like, I'll ask him like, Hey, where's that at? And they're like, always beside those guys. That family that used to own this carpet store 50 years ago, and I was like, I was so not here. This is not where I'm from. Okay, so where do you live now?

 

Lee Hart 

I am in Elizabethtown, Kentucky now. Okay. Moved there about three years ago. Yeah, amazing little place. My wife and I we've been building the facility there. It's coming along slow. We're doing it as we can pay cash for it. I hate debt. So really working toward built in my sports facility there. Okay, so

 

Brandy Von Holten 

did you marry a cowgirl?

 

Lee Hart 

Absolutely married one of the best horse women in the world. Okay.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

So I remember at a horse competition, maybe a world championship? I think she actually had the fastest time in the Pro Division, didn't she?

 

Lee Hart 

Yes, we've been. We had been competing against each other for years, you know, and we become really good friends. We spent a lot of time standing at the gates watching our children ride and things like that. And, you know, as a single dad for a lot of the time and my kids live with me and I had to get them raised. And I actually never really even thought that there was a chance that Laura and I'd end up together but I think God had a different plan for sure.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Well, Laura is an amazing horse woman. She's also amazing vocalist.

 

Lee Hart 

Oh, she can rock it. She's amazing.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

I've got to hear her sing the national anthem at the EFCA national championship in I think it was 2014 or 15. I got to hear that. And then she's actually got to sing the national anthem at rode to the horse before.

 

Lee Hart 

Yes, several different times there. And then she's also she's one of the few Americans that have got to sing the national anthem at Calgary at the stampede when we were all out there competing together.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so explain the Calgary Stampede.

 

Lee Hart 

The Calgary Stampede for those of us that compete an obstacle competitions is it's like the grand show to help really promote our sport. It's the lead of the league. It's invitation only, you're running at quite a bit of money, but comparatively to other rodeos and things like that. We just don't have added money in it like we should.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so how many people are invited to compete 12 Is it men only?

 

Lee Hart 

No, it's, it's, it's men and women. Were on a equal base and then it's also sometimes only invite some of the real good Young Guns, the youth

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay. All right. So tell us now I have a list of accomplishments in front of me. Okay. And the first one goes back to 1997. Okay. 1997 Zero. I graduated high school and you know what, you know what Lee Hart was doing. Lee Hart was the W R C, a world champion bronc rider. Okay, does that. So tell us about that time in your life.

 

Lee Hart 

You know, at that time in my life, we were just getting a family started. Mice and Jason were little kids. And actually, Jason wasn't here yet. But nice. He was on the way, I guess, as I remember it, and that was just a good time. The ranch bronc rides and stuff have gotten a lot more intense over the years. As we started riding more and more they started bringing rancor and rancor stop. Back then they just brought a bunch of horses in that just weren't really good saddle were on courses are really good bareback horses, they were kind of the trash horses, that eliminators. So you had to really kind of pay attention and stay on your toes to get them rode.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so I'll tell you, Lee Hart is a different kind of clinician that comes to our ranch. Do you know, at our ranch we hosted one year, because we've been open for eight years now I had 13 different professional clinicians come in, and Lee was one of one of 13 that year. But Lee has been at our place from the year that we opened in 2014. all the way till right now. And right now this podcast, if you're listening to it, and it's 2030 right now, this, this podcast was being recorded in 2022. Okay, so Lee came every year, something that Lee heart can do is if a horse gets nasty with one of the riders, he'll say, my turn. And you'll get on it and you don't you don't. You're not trying to make the horse buck, you're actually releasing the correct time with pressure. So then the animal is getting the correct cues. And you can work through some of those rougher times for the rider. A lot of clinicians are not going to crawl on somebody else's horse that they don't know. But Lee will. So have you ever had that bite you in the butt? Lee Hart?

 

Lee Hart 

Luckily not. You know, if I thought it was a severely dangerous situation, I would say hey, we need to get this horse in training, and let's get him fixed. Let's help him. The reason why I crawl on those is I want to see the riders be successful, but also want to see the horse have a better life. Right? That's really important to me, I'm always thinking about how's the horse mentally doing? And if I can't get on there and be able to apply enough pressure to help the horse find the right answer. How can I expect my riders to do that?

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Right? Well, I mean, like this week, we just got through with a three day training. It was Friday, Saturday and Sunday. And I actually had him get on my mule, Coco. Coco was not being bad. She was being like lethargic. In part of our things that we were trying to do like something called a roll back where you would stop and then have the animal put their weight on their hind in and then you want them to turn and then she just had like a dull moment. And then she was having where we were asked her to go from a lope down to a walk. And she was just being like, non responsive. And so I had Lee get on her, just to see if he could help me with getting from point A to point B. And then if I can see him doing it, then it helps me to be able to do it myself. So you do that you'll get on animals also just to help bridge that gap between where you're at and where you're trying to be in your horsemanship or mule midship. So something that I with all of this time with Lee, something that I really love about his clinics is that this weekend, we had riders from the age of 10, up to the age of 75. We had animals that were gated, non gated, we had animals that are used for pretty serious competitions and animals that had never been in a clinic and never done anything other than trial. And then we had mules, we have all these different a very eclectic group of people and equine. I mean I've I have personally written I don't know maybe six or seven different animals in his clinics. One of the most fun animals I've ever rode in a clinic that Lee Hart taught was a passive fee. No, that was a world change being passo fino in my one of my dear clients that I love her name is Sue nibbling. Sue wanted to turn this world champion passive fino into a trail animal. So she had me write it for I think 60 days but Lee's clinic was during that time and it was just fun that Paso fino it's something I would have never gotten a ride if I didn't have the ranch. So tell me about some cool animals. that you've seen in your Have you had any honor? No. Well, lepers honors are

 

Lee Hart 

all I've wrote just about every breed you can. There was a stage in my life where I was starting a lot of warmbloods for people and, you know, I actually really enjoyed on them. They helped me slow down my process, my teaching process, because I had to wait just a little bit longer for him to figure out the answer. Instead of just step in there and make the horse do it. I've wrote a lot of thoroughbreds, I really enjoy thoroughbred Quarter Horses my first love, right for sure, my first love, but I've had great Morgans, I've had great Arabs that I've been around. I've just been really lucky. And you know, I've been doing some of the Mustang things recently and things like that. And I've had some really good Mustangs also,

 

Brandy Von Holten 

you know, with you saying the word Morgan, do you know I have a someone that I've done an interview with before that does the Mounted Police, he swears that his number one favorite is a Morgan. So like, that's kind of odd that that was one of them that you came up to say, so. Okay, tell us about Alright, so you did this bronc riding for a little while. Then you won a top hand at the World Championship for the WRC a talentless did you end up winning something big at that?

 

Lee Hart 

Oh, that was huge. Yes, it's pretty cool. The work and ranch cowboys Association. It's a love of mine. It has been for years and always will be some of the most amazing people in the world. It's ranch rodeos. So you're doing working ranch type of events. Like what? Okay, so there's like the ranch bronc riding. cow milking certain. Brandon. It's, it's made to simulate what you do on a ranch. There's a doctor and a lot of times and there's a mug and where you throw one down and tie them up.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, well, we got we gotta go back for one second. Okay, yes, milking a cow. It must be different than I'm thinking about it. See, Sue's gonna go sit on a buggy in milk. A cow wants eaten hay. But that's not that's

 

Lee Hart 

not the case at all. As far as to simulate, say a cows have a calf and she's got mastitis or she's got a bad odor. And you need to catch you need to catch the cow and milk her out and you're out in the open in a big ranch. Not not in a little

 

Brandy Von Holten 

sweet little cow that just wants a pet and

 

Lee Hart 

she's wild. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so you'll Roper and then one gal, grab her head and other gal grab her tail and Melkor

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, where were you at in that milking situation?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, luckily, God blessed me and I was usually the Roper a lot of times, but there were times where I was the Roper, the mugger and the milker. All in the same Ron.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

So you were having to be like, Okay, I roped her nessa camera and hold this rope. Okay, I got over tail nuts. I mean, come on, get this tail, and then you're having to help your team.

 

Lee Hart 

Oh, it's a team deal. And, you know, one of the things that I miss the most about, I don't compete actively in them anymore. Because I'm traveling so much doing clinics. And when I'm not traveling, doing clinics, I'm in home training full time, right. So I spend a lot of time on the road, I don't have time to go to the WRC rodeos and stuff. But, you know, my first passion is horses. My second passion is cattle. And I love taking care of cattle.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so let's let's go back because something you and I always have like this banter. And everybody thinks that we're serious, because they haven't been around us for like more than a little bit of time. But I'm always talking about how long kick your butt. And then you're always talking about how you've been afraid of me. And then I was like, well, that's just dumb. You should be afraid of me. But you're not afraid of me gives us a decent wrestling.

 

Lee Hart 

Yeah, I used to wrestle quite a bit. So tell us like,

 

Brandy Von Holten 

did you ever win anything? Well,

 

Lee Hart 

I want to regional. My high school, my junior year, they decided they were going to add, I guess now technically it was my sophomore year, they added a wrestling program. None of us had any experience. And I would have I would call each of us all a fish is what we were to the other wrestlers at that stage because we didn't know what was going on. I was lucky enough. And there were several other the guys that I wrestled with that were lucky enough to win a few matches with very little knowledge. The second year I was really successful. We did all right. And then the third year I qualified for state as the first person ever from Council Grove High School to qualify for state as the first one to ever win a regional. But then I got performance anxiety when I got to state and you know, I wrestled a kid that I had beat multiple times. And I just shut down and didn't do my job. And so I didn't do very good. I ended up going to Dodge City Community College for one semester and on a wrestling scholarship. And that was okay. It just wasn't my passion horses and Catalan in a cowboy was my passion.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so something that I just remembered from something we had already talked about because I'm trying to give people this clear picture of you. So you know whenever I talked about how you'll get on people's horse is that if they're having issues, you'll also take those horses home with you and put them into training from the clinic whenever you find horses that have big holes,

 

Lee Hart 

right? Yes, I do. And I do it a lot. It gets me in trouble at home a little bit, because my wife's a planner in your life and then add an extra one here and there. But I can't stand to see a human or horse in distress, right? And I feel like I have to step in at that stage in hell.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Well, what a wonderful thing to do. So you and I, you talked about you how you had some performance anxiety if it stayed going with your wrestling. So I can tell you, man, that's a huge thing for people to admit, because a lot of people won't, they'll just be like, Oh, I'm not doing something. But man, it is so much easier to become a champion than to remain a champion. Because to become a champion, you're going to train, train, train, and you're going to train your hardest. But then to become a champion, you start doing things like, Oh, am I really good of good enough to have one? Was it just a fluke? Was it just because the other more difficult competitors that I that I usually competed against? They did not show up at that competition? Am I worthy to be that? I mean, did this childhood that I come from, does it allow? I mean, is is that am I really capable of being the one that's the best? So like performance anxiety is alive and well in every sport? It is something that a lot of people you have you have to get your mind right, so much. So tell us about some things that you have done throughout the years as you have aged? He hates me and 50 Grandpa 50 Yeah, that's me. Yeah. Well, your grandbaby is beautiful. She is alright Grandpa, what is your granddaughters name?

 

Lee Hart 

Oh, it's Alison. She's amazing. She was born, just loving the horse. And, you know, if you've got a horse around, she wants to be up on it. And she's just so cool.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Sir. name is Alice. Alice. Absolutely. Okay. Well, what a beautiful name, I bet you are going to have so many grandbabies in your life.

 

Lee Hart 

You know, Jaden, he says he's pretty happy with one. I suspect there'll be one or two more eventually here. But I don't know i.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

So do you find yourself spoiling your grandchildren more than you spoil your kids?

 

Lee Hart 

No, actually, I don't. And here's why. Because I remember how many disagreements I'd seen over the years over grandparents having a different set of standards for the grandkids, and then they did the parents. So I feel like it has to stay on a fair game. fair playing ground forum.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay. All right. So tell us how you have evolved over the years with dealing with performance and competition anxiety?

 

Lee Hart 

Okay, well, first off, I had to believe I was good enough.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, that I could do it. So what made you believe you're good enough. Finally,

 

Lee Hart 

I had to start really, I had to get a little bit of structure in my life. And I had to start really visualizing things happen. And I had to visualize them repeatedly to believe that they could come true. So they would come true.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay. All right. So what is? What is something that you do now that helps you to visualize that? What is your something in your actual day that you do?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, I know right? Now, if I'll go work out, go jog a little bit and stuff. I'm so much more mentally clear. And then when I'm on the horses that I'm preparing to show and stuff, I'm always Alright, how can I step it up to the level that I'm going to ask this horse to perform, and then when the horse gives it to me, at home, I can give them this huge, massive release. Like, I may come up there and hit a stop that I've been wanting for weeks, and I finally get that one and I'll just step off and I'll lose my sanction, I'll be able to reward it in a stage that it just completely brings more and more confidence in the animal.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so you just do it's a lot of you like see a movie in your head. And whenever you see things happen in your life, the way that you want them to happen in your competition, you make like a huge, you drop a pin basically on like a Google Map. You're like, that's what I want in my competition, and you do like a huge reward for your horses. Absolutely. And then for yourself, you're saying that working out is helping you feel like you're more athletic and everything to be able to handle the competitions that you put

 

Lee Hart 

your things that are coming up for sure. I mean, do I need to focus on the opportunities that are ahead of me and prepare for them? Preparation is the key to anything, if you're not prepared and you're just kind of flying by the seat of your pants, and then you get mediocre results. You shouldn't be surprised by mediocre results. When you haven't put the effort out in front of us.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

All right, you know, with you being a wrestler, and you were on a team, you know, and I did martial arts for forever, man, it is really hard for, for me to, I do not like myself on team sports, because I'm used to discipline myself and training towards something. And then to have somebody where you're pulling their weight, I cannot stand that. But in these circumstances, you have two things to worry about, you've got yourself to prepare, and you have your horse to prepare. So and you're hoping that you and your horse are at the same, you know, I guess like the crest of a wave, whenever you're at a final competition or a world championship, because you don't want your horse to peak before you do you understand what I'm talking about. Absolutely

 

Lee Hart 

understand that a few years ago, I had a horse and he was really coming along and I was 100%. Sure we were going to win the FCA futurity on him. And two weeks in front of it, he is the most amazing horse I've ever been on. But instead of knowing that, that was the point that I needed to kind of just keep him right there, I kept asking for just a little bit more and a little bit more, I didn't realize that that was enough. And then by the time we got to finals, he just was a little bit dull, he still did pretty good. I think he ended up fourth or something like that, but he was so much better two weeks in front, so you will have horses peak at the wrong time, you'll have yourself speak at the wrong time, you got to be focused on the end goal.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

So I don't know, you know, like I am, I am nothing compared to you in the horse world for like my abilities. But I will tell you, like the animals I competed on, it feels like they're always in waves, we will do so good, then we'll crash and burn. And we'll do good. But it just seems like we're climbing an uphill all the time. But it's always got ups and downs and ups and downs. Well, it's gonna

 

Lee Hart 

be peaks and valleys, there's gonna be spot where, you know, you're really up here, and it's going good. And you'll maybe level out for a little bit, and then maybe I'll go backwards. But the cool thing about a horse and even myself as a human is, you know, sometimes when you hit that valley, when you're going backwards, that's just right in front of when things are gonna get better. And when things get better. You know, you take that next step, you know that horse levels up, or you level up or, you know, you know, a lot of people want to whine and cry about their past. That's just free education you got

 

Brandy Von Holten 

my past makes me strong. I love my past, I just I look forward to difficult situations now. I'm just a lot more mellow with them. And I'm not afraid of taking chances. Because I know as soon as like, I have to commit, and there's no safety net, I always rise up because I'm not going to allow myself to fail, like pushing that push forward. A lot of people don't have that push forward. So

 

Lee Hart 

I can remember I was at a pretty low line, low spot in my life. And I just went through a divorce and I moved into Todd's place, who was a friend. And I kind of got my feet back on the ground. And I was moving out. And I thought he was a friend. And he told me as I was moving out that I would never make it, never make it. And I I just looked at him. And I was really humbled by that. And I heard what he had to say, but I didn't believe a word he said.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Well, man, I will tell you, you know how like some people whenever you tell them that, that they're not going to do something, it really like rallies them up. I'm not that person. I'm not that person. Like, as soon as someone say you're never gonna do that. I was already on my own mission. And then I take them out of my circle, my circle of trust, once it's broken, you're never back into it. And as soon as somebody voices that doubt, I never let them back into that that innermost part of my heart. I'm, I'm a little bit of me, I'm done with them. They'll never be a 9899 with me, they'll always be an 8788 with me. Because once you cross me by telling me that I can't do something, I'm a little bit done with you. Now just a little bit. I can love you I can forgive you. We can do wonderful things together in the future. But you'll never be back in that top spot in my heart. So I don't know I like a lot of people like it crushes their soul and then they like oh, I can't do it. And I'm just like, in you just you just de weed in my little friend and garden for me.

 

Lee Hart 

And that's not you know, a lot of people want lots of friends. I realized pretty early on luckily that a close circle of friends is the key. And I have a lot of people and I actually have a lot of friends, right? And I know who uncountable. And I have a real tight, really, really close circle. And then I have a lot of other friends too. And it's wonderful. Right? But I know at the end of the day, I can depend on me. Right? And I am responsible for what I do.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Right. So I want to talk about some of the people that I've seen in your clinics through the past, okay, man, I have, I have seen people, you know, a lot of people with with your competition and winning record, a lot of people would be like, they think they would be intimidated to come and train with you. I find it's the exact opposite. I see people that they spend half of the clinic on the ground, I see people that just to be able to walk away, like 10 foot away from the other horses. That's a huge accomplishment for them. I see people that they've never cantered in their life. And they've cantered in your clinics. So, Lee, oh, my gosh, you know, a lot of elite cowboys don't want nothing to do with that group of people. But I see you time and time again, cheer for these people that other people would not even want anywhere near their clinic. And I see you with extreme athletes. I see with people that are doing Mustang makeovers, the OTTB makeovers, I compete in mounted archery, and I'm going to take my mule through mounted police training, and I took your clinic to prepare for that. Such a diverse amount of people. How do you find that passion for a novice or a lower rider that's they're so behind your journey, which I know your journey is not their journey. But I just want to know how you find that love for you love for them in your heart. Because a lot of people I've seen so many clinicians, other clinicians wouldn't even spoken to them. And then you take their horses home because you're afraid that they're gonna get hurt. So where are they? Where's that big heart come from Cowboy?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, you know, I think it comes from my grandfather. Actually, I really did. He was listening. peewee. Okay. And, you know, he was a loving man, and everybody loved him. And unfortunate. I've got an uncle named Tony, you really? That's cool. Yeah. And, you know, he was not the type to have hate in his heart. And I don't, I don't have hate, hate takes too much energy. And, you know, as a young man, I had a little bit of anger in me. Maybe a lot. Maybe that's the honest answer, maybe a lot. But I had to realize that that wasn't that was hindering me from accomplishing what I wanted to do. And if you'd asked me, When I graduated from high school, what I've been doing, I'd have told you, I'd been out in the middle 1000 acres on a horse taking care of cattle. But I kept getting drawn to teach and people. And, for me, it's about the little successes. And when I when I'm at a clinic, and I'm teaching and someone comes in, and you can tell they're a little bit intimidated or something like that, and I can help them level up, get to that next step that's going to help them to be safe. And, you know, that's a huge accomplishment. And a lot of people wouldn't think that it's even worth their time. But to see someone like for the first time, I think, you know, as I think about first time, I think back to when my kids were little and I can remember them first steps. And, you know, that amazing feeling that you get when you see a child take the first step. For me, it's the same as the people in my clinics are taking those steps. Okay.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Well, I know I have taken a whole bunch of first steps with you. You have seen me cry. You've seen me get so frustrated that I had dirty words come out of my mouth. You've seen me be so nervous that I've thrown up have thrown off off the side of my horse on timber boot before. I don't think you've ever Oh, you've seen me hit the dirt. Yeah, one time, and I was just to forward over my mule and he couldn't pick them front legs up and somersaulted me anyways, I came up and said beep beep got dirt in my gum. Yeah, there's you can fill out them beep beep So 30 of you want to but I don't think you've ever seen me hit the ground other than that one time. Just the one time Yeah. And it wasn't a buck or nothing. It was just it just felt a little off balance got forward and a mall. You know,

 

Lee Hart 

I've realized over the years you know, like all those little things as as these riders at the clinics are focused in on the negative things I have to keep pointing out the positive things so I can actually change their mental thought process about how it's gonna go. Because you know for the horse where They feel energy so well. And, you know, I think they process negative energy and positive energy is what they process. So if a writer is setting up learning, and they're very anxious, if I can talk to him and get them to relax a little bit, and kind of change that energy in their body, all at once I can change that relationship for them in their horse. And it's cool to see

 

Brandy Von Holten 

something that you have said a lot this these last three days. So you've said it probably, I don't know, 5060 times, if not more confidence circles, confidence circles. So this is something that you helped put into our toolbox of things to do with our horses. So why don't you explain a confidence circle?

 

Lee Hart 

All right, well, confidence circle is where you shorten your inside, right, an inside leg and, and you actually drive your horse around that inside leg. A lot of people would call it a serpentine. There's a lot of different names for it. My term is the confidence circle. And the reason why is I found over the years that people are a whole lot more confident, if they can control a situation. And when a when a horse gets in an anxious moment, he needs to be redirected, he needs a change of direction, so you can change the mind. So with that confidence circle, I'm able to get the rider to draw that horse into that circle, get control of the situation, and soften the horse because if I can soften the horse's body, I can soften the horse's mind.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay. All right. So let's talk about let's go back to this list of accomplishments after WRCA which is what are the what is WRCA working ranch cowboys Association. Okay, then after that, I see a ton of EXCA a what does EXCA stand for?

 

Lee Hart 

Extreme cowboy race Association.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay. So in this right here, explain cowboy racing in general, and talk to us about your first race.

 

Lee Hart 

Okay. My first race will just start there, if that's all right, yeah, my first race I was working out on the ranches at that time. And I wrote a lot of really good deals and and I was selling a lot of hiring horses at that time. And I had a, I had a customer come to me and say, Hey, if you will bring out horse to saddle and sirloin and compete off of it, at Craig Cameron's extreme cowboy race, and it does well. I will buy the horse. And you were like Game on. And I was like, done. So cool story about that. I had no clue what I signed up for. Oh, yeah. No, I didn't know what all I get there. We go through this big walkthrough and a top big outdoor course with a lot of natural obstacles.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

I've competed at Saddle & Sirloin, it does get big. It's cool.

 

Lee Hart 

Yep. The second obstacle was the railroad tie jumps, and they were solid. And the class I was in at that time, you had to go over the three foot jump. The problem is, I had all these years being a cowboy taught my horses not to jump anything. They had better drag their belly over whatever they went over, and they'd better stay flat and level when they do it. I did not want a jumping horse. I am not a jumping trainer. That's what he thought. That's what I thought. So we get through this walkthrough and I'm going through a little bit of a panic moment, because I don't know how to jump. And I really don't know how to jump in a Western saddle. I had rode English a little bit, but I don't know how to jump in a Western saddle. So I grabbed a guy that I knew was a fox Hunter. And I said Hey, Jim, Jim Chalfont, great, man, you know, he, I said, I need a jump and lesson. So he took me down to a little indoor down there at saddle and sirloin. And he set up some little video jumps. And he taught me and we run that horse through is this at the competition, the competition? So your work, okay. And, you know, I've went back and seen that jump, years after and it doesn't seem as intimidating as it did. But in my mind when I seen it was six foot tall, and I had a 40 foot drop off, going away. Now, it was three foot tall, it was solid railroad tie jump. And it did drop away quite a bit. Yeah. And I remember, I, whatever we had to do up top was not that big deal. I did it. And our second obstacle was to come jump that and I just run him off. I mean, I just put as much lag on him as I could. And I run him. And there was a road down below this jump, and we sailed over this jump and we landed on the other side of the road, which was about 30 feet. I mean, that's how far the road it was dropping off. And I was never so relieved to get to the ground again in my life.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Oh my god, how did you place I actually

 

Lee Hart 

ended up I think second at that race. Okay, yeah.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

And that was in the Pro Division. Yep. Yeah. Okay, and Then you fell in love with it after you got scared to death?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, what I fell in love with is I seen the consistency that obstacles could bring for a horse, right? You know, if you can start with a confident horse, so through obstacles, you can introduce it the same way they see it the same way. It's not like you're coming into a creek crossing, you cross it, then you turn around. And everybody always thinks that the horse sees that creek crossing as water. And it's exactly the same thing. But he doesn't. You know. So it's hard to build confidence when you're outside, and you're not coming at it from the same perspective. But what was what was really cool, is, you know, this new obstacle world, all these young horses, I've riding through these obstacles, and I was getting them confident, and then I'd take them and put them on cattle. And they were just eating it up eating it up, and they weren't kicking to that reactive side of their brain. When I'd go to the cattle. They were staying with me, you know, and they wouldn't get too hot, because I'd already built a really cool young, confident horse.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Man we had a few years ago, one of the associations that we hosted for was ETS ETS kind of replaced ACTHA, the American competitive the American competitive trail Horse Association, we had a ton of people that were ropers that were coming in doing these obstacle competitions, because then their horses were doing so much better at their roping events, because they were just calmer. And I don't know, it seemed like an odd pairing to me. But we had a ton of ropers they would be so good when there was a roping obstacle because they're like, We got this. So that's what you were finding is that your obstacle horses were doing better in their cattle event?

 

Lee Hart 

Absolutely. You know, I actually think that horses were the first CrossFit athletes, you know, I am for how important CrossFit training is. Yep. Well, horses, I think the more things they do, the better they are, they will have one thing that they're really special at and wonderful at, and that's their talent. But that talent will be even so much more if we do other things with them. Because they get bored with it, if they just do the same thing all the time

 

Brandy Von Holten 

was kind of like a football player taking yoga. You're right. It's the same thing, like they've got something they're good at. But this other thing can help them so much more. And it's a completely different mindset. So my first obstacle competition the weekend before I'd went to a fight in Oklahoma City and qualified for nationals as an Olympic level fighter. And then the next weekend, I came and competed. And I competed a novice and intermediate and I got dead last and disqualified. And then I was like, why nobody puts baby in the corner. And then I was like, I was really bad at that. In in one of the there was 10 obstacles, I think maybe 10 or 12. But I do remember, I could do three of them. And I was I was very humbled. And I was just not used to being on the I was I was an elite fighter. I mean, I fought in five countries. And then to go into something. And here's the here's the deal. I'm the best horse woman in my family. I'm the best cow girl in my immediate family. And then for me to go and then realize how, how horrible while it was, it was humbling. And then it was game on. And then by the next year, I'd want to buckle and I'd started training with you. And there's where you met me was not at that competition, but I like it the next one. And I needed help because I was just they were the 10 obstacles that was at that competition, I would go home and I would try to work on those 10 obstacles, well, then the next competition it would be 10 more and then I'm like, son of a gun. Gosh, dang it. Now I got 20 things to challenge. So like, until I realized that it didn't really matter what the obstacle was, it was more about compliance in the really leash relationship with the horse and I but for the first like year, it was just me trying to recreate the obstacles that I've seen at the competitions because that's, that's where I was. So

 

Lee Hart 

anyways, well, you know, the obstacle competitions have really evolved over the years. You know, at first, if you had a Waterboxx and a curtain set set up, they were the deal breakers and nowadays, you know, mostly obstacles. There's not any deal breakers left. I've realized over the years I like man made obstacles, the best something that looks like it came from nature. I'm not really a big fufu guy. There's a lot to benefit from some tarps and things like that, and I use them. But as far as a whole lot of scary things. I'm not in this to scare my horses, right and I'm not going to compete anywhere where they think it's funny to scare the horse because I am in this to build a confident partner,

 

Brandy Von Holten 

right? Well, this or here, you know you were one of the people that I talked to behind the scenes whenever I was trying to come up with country tough Trial versatility, because we were hosting for all of these different associations. And there were things that I liked and things that I didn't like. So what I have come up, this is our fifth year, and we have grown by, we grew 100%, the first couple of years and then 50%. And this year, I think we're going to grow by 75%. And that's even with going through a pandemic. So we do actual trail riding, because then a lot of people that have never competed as soon as they see there's trail riding, they're like, Wow, I can do that one. But they don't realize it's like backing around a tree or there's like proper ways to do it so that they come in and they'll compete and some of them do. Okay, then I have an arena ranch horsemanship pattern, because then it's working on transitions. And there's so many people that will come and do country tough trail versatility, because they're used to doing arena work. Well, they'll come because of the arena part, then we have the obstacles, and we have a natural obstacle. It's a mountain trail course that we've put up, because we don't want crazy stuff because we want animals to be safer on the trail. So this right here is a mountain trail course where we get bridges and rocks. And so and then combine it. So we have a versatile horse. So once again, whenever you were talking about how it's good for horses to have one thing, but to diversify, so they don't get bored. Well, then that's what we're trying to do with country tough trail versatility is set up that within the same competition, so you don't have burnout. And you end up with this amazing animal that is safer. Like my, my goal with country to have trail versatility is to be able to give people goals that are achievable, make it affordable, and then make better riders and better horses and mules

 

Lee Hart 

at the end of the day. That's what we're all trying to do. Yeah, well, that's why I teach and I think I think the country Carol tough is a really cool deal. And I think it's a great thing.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Thank you very much. All right, so let's go through this. Okay, I'm looking at your, your things in front of you. So I'm gonna go through here a little bit. In 2019, you went to the ex a world championship and won the Pro Division. And then the next year, the American Royal colt starting champion. So tell us about that colt starting championship.

 

Lee Hart 

It was an event that Purina and Ernie rodina put on and it was during the American Royal rodeo, you know, back in, when the American role rodeo was pretty big. At that stage, it's kind of shrunk a little bit, but they're in the process of building a new facility right now. And we, we drew our kilts, and I drew one and luckily I got along really good.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay. All right. So now then, you have won all sorts of pro competitions, and you've won something called a shootout national championship that was that with the EXCA you've won reserve and actual world championships in the futurity. So I really think what's really cool about that is all of these different divisions, different years, a lot of them are different horses. If it's a futurity, it's most definitely a different horse for sure. And then there was one year, you won both the EXCA World Championship and the Pro Division and in the futurity division, and that was a good year really hard when

 

Lee Hart 

it was a good year to be me for sure. I was mounted really good. I had Buster at that time. And then I also had cat five, who's my good horse now. I retired Buster, and I sold him to the lady who takes really great care of me. And they're an amazing team. And so now I've been writing cat five, and here's the problem with my horses. You know, my horses get the least amount of writing of any horses. So I've really committed myself this year, and I'm gonna put a lot of time into my horses and get them to where I want them to be where they're the amazing animals I know they are.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

You know, that's, that's crazy that you're talking about how you want to focus more on your horses. That's one of my focuses. I'm like, I'm ready. I've I have really shut down a lot of my guided ride in my private lessons because I want to focus more on my animal. So I understand that where before it was like I've got I need to make money. And a lot of times your own stuff gets put on the back burner. But now I'm ready to put my horsemanship back up on the top burner. Also, it feels good to get to do things for yourself. But you've also competed in Mustang challenges. What brought on the desire to compete in in a Mustang challenge?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, it's a romantic idea, you know, you think about the American West before it was in time and the Mustangs running out there. And you know, we've got a surplus of home so it's a it's a good thing for us to help get these horses tamed and placed in good homes and productive citizens in the world, because the other options aren't very good. So You know, the Mustang makeovers are really a good thing to help promote the Mustang.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so here we go. I'm going to be devil's advocate. Okay. So a Mustang was born in the wild. And then you know, now it's if it's been rode by someone, does it ever fully? Oh, you know, with a horse that was not ever wild before? You know, I just, I mean, I just feel like there would be like a reactive state. I mean, do you ever overcome that being wild before? Is it just like another horse?

 

Lee Hart 

Maybe you overcome a lot of it. But there's still gonna be reactions at times because Mother Nature is programmed they'll man, right, you know?

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Well, they've been wild this entire time, you know, except for maybe whenever like concrete, the doors brought them over, and then they got loose or something, you know, but they're, they have been surviving by being, you know, by Oh, we hear something we run away.

 

Lee Hart 

The reactions are a little bigger. But what I found with most of them is, you know, they'll kind of let down and come to yen. And they want, they want to be a friend.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay? I bet they're just like, Man, this sweet feed is amazing. And this hay is amazing. And I'm not having to look for food as much. I don't know, it seems like they'd be able to buddy up, especially if some of those things were harder?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, I think yes, I think they do. A lot of times that bond is a lot more important there. You've got to take a little more time and really get that bond going. You can't let yourself be surprised when you get a reaction that you weren't that you weren't planning on. Because it's not a domesticated horse at this stage. And I just, I just roll with it. I don't want to bother me and I just kind of keep going on I keep asking this question to a Mustang or to young horses this okay. And when uh, when one of them gets troubled back off a little bit. And I keep presenting and then pretty soon what what and okay becomes okay.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, do you? Are their feet any, like hardier or better than a regular horse?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, I've had, I've had no foot issues with the Mustangs that I've had. So I think that's probably something that years of being out wild has kind of took care of.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Yeah, cuz I would think if they got some, they were really prone to a bunch of abscesses and couldn't get around very well that they would not be able to breed or get away from predators. Right. And they were the ones that survived with the better feet. So I always just considered like a Mustang to have like a better foot quality is what I would. That's where I would venture in my thoughts. Yes. Okay. So then you have in 2021, you won the reserve, World Championship, EXCA, the reserve, EXCA World Championship for the futurity division. And then you won the world championship in their Mustang challenge. Yeah. Awesome. And 2021. Now it's 2022. So tell us what, what are you planning to do this year besides help the entire world, you know, have better horsemanship?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, I don't know that I want to take on the entire world. I'm not sure there's enough of me to do that. But I want to help as many people as I can for sure. You know, this year, I've tried to stay home a little bit more. My clinic schedule was a little lighter. So I could focus more on starting more new cults and stuff. I spent years and I'd start over 100, head of cults a year. I think there were seven or eight years we did that. Wow. And now, I've been traveling and clinic and then I'll probably start 40 a lot of years. Okay, so I want to try and get a little bit over the 40 number for sure.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay. Competition was are you going to compete in the exe a world championship with or without a Mustang? Well, I

 

Lee Hart 

have I have a new Mustang. We're in the process. I think we've got 15 rods owning his name, spider. He's at chloride Canyon. He's another great one. I'm a little partial to gray one. And he's probably the smartest and most athletic one I've ever had. Okay, he's got a lot of talent.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

So are you also going to compete in the Pro Division other than the Mustang challenge?

 

Lee Hart 

Yes, I'm going to compete in the Pro Division and then I have a security horse. Okay.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so one or two futurity horses, the Mustang competition and the Pro Division. Yes. Okay. So you whenever you go to compete, you go to compete, right. Yeah. So

 

Lee Hart 

we go to compete and, you know, that World Finals weeks pretty insane. I do a world prep clinic in front of it. It's been full continuously for five or six years. We got to move it this year. It's like Glen Rose. We're in there Friday, Saturday, Sunday, in Texas at the EXCA World Finals. And then I actually get up every morning with all of my riders. And I ride with them at five o'clock in the morning. Okay, and we do an hour session in the morning because and I had some people whining and crying that for If you're saying, well, it's just too early, I just don't think I can make it. And all I'd say to him, Well, I guess you're just not focused enough to have scheduled to be wanting to try for a world championship. Oh, yeah. And now there's people just trying to knock each other over to get into those morning sessions and things. We don't do a whole lot. We touch on what they're going to do that day. And we counted Chris and things up. But most importantly, we get a mentally ride. And it's insane. I can't I judge a lot of EXCA shows, but it world finals I can't. Because of the clinics and everything I've done all year. I just have too many customers in there. And I take it on my back personally. And like I tried to watch all of my customers ride.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

You know, you know, I tried to go to the Olympics as a fighter. And then and but whenever I would go to a large competition, I would always I don't know if you do this with your competitors, but it's the first thing that came to my mind. I was always have like a very intense warmup. And then just keep moving a little bit and then like a lighter warm up. But that first intense one, though, I would blow my lungs out just about just because I was trying to get nice and warmed up, get everything I wanted. And then I had like an entire pattern that I would do like a warmup and stretches but mine was different because I'm kicking and stuff like that. I know you've got the horses, the athlete and the person's the athlete, is that what you're finding is like you've got like a schedule where you do like a double warm up like you have a more intense one or you're just thinking, what were you how's that workout?

 

Lee Hart 

You know, my thought process on warming a horse up is different than some I'm not one of the guys that goes out and loves for three hours. I ride the I ride the mental side of the horse, not the physical side, I don't have enough time to wear a horse down. So I really focus on getting that horse with me that I think that's the most important question that anybody could ever ask as they're setting on their horses back or as their working hours on the ground. Just keep checking in with that horse and saying Are you with me? Are you with me? And it's important, are they following your energy that you're putting out? Are they are they overachieving and they're doing more? And if they're overachieving, doing more, they need redirected. They need to come back and match your energy and you don't need to rise to their energy. They need to mimic you because you're the leader.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Right? Okay, so 2022 has EXCA and a couple of different divisions, you've got competitors that you've worked with that are going to be competing. Well, then EXCA worlds there are there's in November, you have something that's in September, that has been a little gleam in your eye for a long, long time. And it's finally getting to begin.

 

Lee Hart 

Yeah it's bucket list for sure for me.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Bucket list. So this is called Road to the Horse. You're in the road to the horse wildcard challenge. Yes. Okay. So explain because that is September 23rd through the 25th. It is in Fort Worth Texas in the stockyards. But explain how many people and exactly what you're doing.

 

Lee Hart 

Alright, so there's gonna be six of us competitors. And the wildcard is kind of supposed to be the underdog. You know, the guys that aren't, you know, the famous Clinton Anderson, Chris Cox. Really, you know, we haven't been out there marketing ourselves to death. We might be pretty successful in the equine industry. But yeah, we just don't have that huge notoriety of some of the others. Those guys get invited to the main competition. You know, you're Craig Cameron's.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay? So this right here, there's six of you and tell us what are you going to be doing? Like, what how does the competition work?

 

Lee Hart 

Okay, so the competition works. We come the first day, we draw numbers. And the four six or four six is ranch colts again, which is great, tremendous breeding program with lots of history

 

Brandy Von Holten 

for six is like the one that was talked about in Yellowstone

 

Lee Hart 

now that Taylor shared and owns now in the process of owning Yeah.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

All right. So we're talking about Yellowstone here and the four sixes and their Colts are coming to the wildcard challenge and they're numbered and the new draw number and then that's the horse that you get.

 

Lee Hart 

No, that's not how it works. If you draw a number to determine when you get to pick, oh, you know, I've been visualizing this. I feel it it's gonna happen I'm getting number one. I can already tell you, I'm getting number one.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so I know if there's a gray out there you're gonna be like,

 

Lee Hart 

Yes, I'm partial. My granddad had always say if you can't write a good one, write a great one. But that won't be an issue with four six horses. I know you're

 

Brandy Von Holten 

well you know what, I can't believe how much love you have for gray because I'm all about liver chestnut.

 

Lee Hart 

Most people think that I love black horses because two of my best horses over the years have been black horses and both of them were amazing. Blackjack and Buster. They were really great horses both and but In the process of having to great black horses, I've owned several black horses that were not really that right.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

So you'll get to so you're going to draw numbers, then you get to choose your horse and then what are you that horse ever been written before,

 

Lee Hart 

the horse is barely halter broke. So then they're gonna run us in two sections, three of us will go at a time, they'll run our code into the round pen. And then we've got to catch them, put a halter on them, work them, saddle them, desensitize them to obstacles, get them prepared to be successful citizens in life, okay, and we get an hour and a half the first day, an hour and a half the second day, on the third day, all six of us will compete. We go one at a time. They'll put our horse in the round pen, you've got a saddling, getting ready to go. And then you're outside on a rail class. And then through obstacles. Okay, on, maybe just your third ride on a coat, maybe just your second ride on the cold depending on how it goes.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Now the winner of that wildcard challenge will come back in March for the road to the horse and there's only there's three other people plus the wild card winner. So there'll be four people, four competitors, yes. And

 

Lee Hart 

the main competition.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Is it the same setup as the exact same format? Okay, exact same format. Okay. Lee Hartwood. What is your? What's your thoughts about getting invited into this? Besides appreciation? I know, You've got to be so appreciative to be into this competition. But you feel like you're, you're ready?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, I'm for sure getting ready. You know, I have a nervous part of it. That I have to admit, you know, I turned 50 this year. I'm not ashamed of that, heck, I I wouldn't change my past at all.  That's all just learning experiences more education. Right. Some of it free, some of it very expensive. It just the fans, you know, and patients never free? Well, some of it is and then some of it's not.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

And okay, well, I mean, I think you're at a great time in your life. You know, like, I have seen you if you've had a TV show. Yes, you've had a TV show. And you've had training DVDs in the past. And I want you to write a book so bad. I mean, like, I'm always, like, I took notes. I took notes over our clinic this weekend. And I'm just like, ly hard. If that was put into a book, I would buy it. You know, I would buy it. Because it would just be beneficial because it would be in your words, you know, and then and then I would have like a miniature Lee heart in my head saying, Brandy. You need your shoulders back. Don't ride with your. I think today he told me. I asked everybody like, what's one thing that you I asked you? What's one thing everybody could do better? And you told me that my I needed to not yell with my hands? Yeah, yeah, with my hands. But that's not right. And heavy handed. That means whenever I'm asking for cues, I have got to be softer, but I'm not heavy. It's different.

 

Lee Hart 

There's a difference for sure. And yeah, you know, some people are personalities can get in the way every now and then. And we start shouting instead of asking. And we always need to ask first before we bring more pressure.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Okay, so Lee, what do you what do you what would you like to tell us about the road to the horse? Besides, I mean, people are gonna hear this before the wildcard competition, or the wildcard challenge. And then, you know, I'm not going to say if you win, because I'm a positive thought person unless they win just because that's who I am. When you when you would love for people to come and see that in March of 2023.

 

Lee Hart 

Yes, for sure. You know, um, I think the reality of it's finally setting in and we're getting everything in place, so we can start more colts and, and I'm super stoked and excited. I think for me, the one thing that excites me the most is, is it's in Fort Worth and it's down in the stockyards. And, you know, as a little boy, you'd walk by that arena. And you'd think I'm gonna be there one day and I've been lucky enough to compete in there once. But you know, for it to be a bucket list thing and I'm gonna be in Fort Worth. And, you know, it looks like I'm gonna get quite a bit of my family there and, you know, just the outpouring from people who have been at clinics and friends and you know, customers and even just some random people that that maybe they remember me but I don't remember them just the messages and stuff, right, you know, have been really encouraging. I'm super stoked. I'm not gonna go disappoint anybody. I'm gonna go do the best that I can. I'm really excited about it. I know Intel I'm excited about because I've said it like 10 times since we've been talking about it right here. But most of them importantly I want to make sure that I do right by the horse.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Yeah, well, and I, I know, if you can be the person that you are in the clinics, then I just don't, I just don't see anybody being better than you. I mean, I know I'm not trying to sound cocky for you, or something like that. But, but I have seen a ton of clinicians, I have a, I have a file on every clinician that's ever been here, there's a list of some that'll never be asked back. And there's and then there's a very small list that has Lee Hart on it only that I have invited every year multiple times. That I mean, I keep you should see your file, it is like the encyclopedia keep all sorts of stuff of who's attended and all sorts of things. Just because, man, I've got to you evolve. Every clinic that you teach at, I mean, like you would think that I'm Lee Hart'd out. But I'm over here, I'm so excited about every time I get to train with you, because you are constantly just tweaking and evolving. And boy I know, there was a huge change in you about three or four years ago, it was a big change. You changed the way that you did groundwork, you changed a lot of things. And I'm just like, wow, you know, and I've, I've talked to people, sometimes I'll talk to people that trained with you a long time ago. And I was like, well, you're missing the boat. They're like, Oh, I trained with Lee before. And I was like, No, you haven't, every one of them is just a little bit different. Because you are a continual, you're you're a lifelong learner. You know, a lot of people get stale. I see clinicians get stale. I see clinicians get so rude. Whenever they get a bigger name, they're almost, they almost..I'm gonna say it.. their mean, okay, their mean and like they don't take the time to value some of these novice and beginner people and by God you embrace them.

 

Lee Hart 

You know, I remember when I was a young man, and it was really hot knowledge. And it was still back when, when the horse trainers and the Cowboys, you know, they were old school, and they tell you to do something. I was always a well, why am I doing this? Well, you you remember when we were kids? And you'd ask the word why? What came next? Usually a spanking or do it because I told you Oh, yeah. And and then I was even worse? Because I'd say alright, why am I doing this? What does it do? Where does it apply? When do I use it? And I just couldn't get educated I couldn't the they tell me to do it. So I just go ahead and do it. And then I'd get some positive results. But they couldn't tell me the answers to those questions. And it frustrated me but after teaching for years, I realized they were just doing exactly what they were teaching me to do. Oh, a lot of them didn't realize,

 

Brandy Von Holten 

oh, you know, what's come into my mind just like right in the front of it. The whole thing? One wrinkle to wrinkle with your bit. Yeah. Like, it's just be in everybody tells you you got to have one or two wrinkles. No, it doesn't doesn't have to have a wrinkle at all. And then when you ask people, What do you do there. And um, you know, uh, now, I don't put a wrinkle in because I want my animal to hold it. I've got a mule named Jo Jo, I wait for him to release it on his mouth. It has taken me a minute and a half before waiting on him because he's holding a bit himself instead of me already putting it in his mouth and already applying pressure to his mouth, you know, so like, that's one of the things where people could never explain it to me, but then everybody did it, because that's what they were told.

 

Lee Hart 

Yes. And, you know, I'm not one of those clinicians that say, This is my way, this is the only way. I'm here to help better each rider and if they can use a little bit of what I do, and it changes what how they're getting along, well, then great. But if I teach them something that they shouldn't do, that's okay, too, because I've learned just as much over the years of what not to do. That was way more educational than what to do.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

Well, when I Okay, so here we go. I am one student of Lee Hart's, right. But then think about the impact that I have made. My I mean, tomorrow, today's a Sunday and I have a horse camp tomorrow. And I have four assistants coming in. I have 20 kids. I have people that are showing up now. I'm going I have 20 kids and it's in the exploratory horse camp and then the next day I have a progressive one where we actually do like a little bit more difficult horsemanship. Think about those 20 kids, the things that are coming out of my mouth, a whole bunch of them came from you, you know, and and then me absorbing them with all of my past to be able to think about I don't know if you consider how deep of a ripple that you make with each student because I'm just one student and I have been successful on a whole bunch of different animals and a whole bunch of different associations. And I'm not even a cowboy. I am a chubby 42 year old cowgirl that likes mounted archery and kind of doesn't care what I ride. As long as it's not nasty, but you've seen me struggle with every one of them, and have to overcome something with every animal I own. And I am one student in the amount of people that I help in the equine industry with like, now I have an association that has I mean, I teach clinics, every clinic between now and October that I'm teaching is full. Yeah. And I one student, Lee Hart, do you I don't know if you realize like how deep the waves of the rippling goes from your instruction. I mean, it's helping the horse industry. I don't know if people understand that. The problem is whenever there's people like myself, me in a student, and I'm also a teacher, is whenever you get bad instruction, and people don't know it. They make they get people hurt, they get people doing things, but you're not like that you are always trying to grow and change. And whenever there's something that you were doing that you're like, I used to do it this way, and I do it this way. And here's why. I love that growth.

 

Lee Hart 

So if I, if I choose to evolve, and I'm always hunting more and more knowledge and trying to improve my skills and improve myself, and I want to be a better teacher, for the people that way, when they come they have a great experience and they're just, they're just happy with the overall experience.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

All right, so if you're wanting to look Lee Hart up, okay? And read everything about you have Cowboy Logic that rigth there is your philosophy basically. Okay. And then you have a website it is LeeHart-training.com. So it's about the dash. The dash is after Lee Hart because you know what, whenever you're dead and gone, on your tombstone, you're going to have the day the year you were born in the year you die. And you know, what matters is that little dash in between. So that dash is so important that Lee Hart put it into his website, it is Leehart-training.com. Now he's got Hart training, and it's not H-E-A-R-T. Okay, now this is the last name version and then have no E and there is just H-A-R-T. And he has Hart Training, which is on Facebook, and it's also on Instagram. And then if they wanted to email you, it's [email protected]. He's in Elizabethtown, Kentucky. And man, he's just he's got clinics, he's got competitions, He's judging. You're competing. So any, anything else you would like to add Lee?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, if they're curious about clinics that are coming up, it's on the website. It's also on my Facebook page and my Instagram page. So they can check out those. Luckily, we this year we're pretty full. Yeah. But I think there are a few of the clinics that still have a few openings here and there and I but for this year, I don't think we'll probably add very many more.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

All right, so in Cowboy Logic and your philosophy, something that I had pulled out and it says, to become a cowboy to me, that is the ultimate title. Not a CEO, not a lawyer, but a cowboy. So Lee Hart, how does it feel to be like an American cowboy? That's like, amazing, like, how does it you know, some people do get to grow up and be a cowboy?

 

Lee Hart 

Well, you know, in a lot of, unfortunately, the the word cowboy has kind of a negative connotation from a lot of people. They think that that means getting on a horse and roughing them up and stuff like that. But a true cowboy. You know, he's about his country. He's about God. He's about the spirit of the horse. And he's a caretaker, he's a steward of livestock. And there are bad elements to everything in the world. But I'm guaranteeing you what, you want somebody you can count on. You find a true cowboy.

 

Brandy Von Holten 

All right, so that's it for Big Boss Mare with Brandy Von Holten and today's guest Lee Hart.